The Rochester Guitar Club

(Based on a lengthy email thread)

Vista is great because it's intuitive and, in the 6 months + that I've used it it's not crashed once. If people are dreading the use of it, what are their reasons for it? Is it just that other people say it's bad or is it first hand experience? I have to admit, I was VERY reluctant to start using Vista because of all the negative press it got and all the MAC commercial parrots spouting the "vista sucks" mantra that was pounded into their heads. Once I started using it, though, I realized it is an AWESOME OS. I'm a huge fan of WinXP, too, but Vista is definitely better in my opinion.

ahh, computers... so great when they work!

I guess what I was really trying to ask regarding VISTA is what specifically you liked about it - and could say especially to allay the fears of someone going from XP to VISTA...

Thanks -

Deb

DebJRoss wrote:I guess what I was really trying to ask regarding VISTA is what specifically you liked about it - and could say especially to allay the fears of someone going from XP to VISTA...

Primarily the ease of use and the increased stability.

Here's my take on it. It would appear that as usual, MS released a "not ready for prime time" OS. Clearly evidenced by the immediate release of SP1 to fix the first flurry of critical errors. My second concern with Vista is lack of downward compatability. Doesn't support many printers, and (I'm told) many commonly used programs will not run. It rneeds so many system resources that it requires the purchase of a new machine. And all this for what real benefit. The vast majority of PC users only want a stable machine for Word processing, spreadsheets, powerpoint, tax programs and basic photo management. If you're a power user - fine - buy the biggest, baddest monster on the block and be able to handle the overhead of a mega operating system. I don't need it but am forced to go that route as MS and other SW companies stop supporting my reasonably stable W98SE.

XP had a checkered past too - 2 Service Packs to stabilize and make basically safe.

The best MS operating system I've used was Windows 2000 - the choice of industry because of stability and networking benefits. Had rare problems using that.

These mega OSs are to some extent the result of lazy programmers. I spent quite a few years doing assembly language programming for closed loop testing of complex products. What you can do with 32K of 16 bit core is truly amazing - but todays software people have no idea how the box works - only how to speak to it in high level languages 5 levels removed from the machine language. They use mega amounts of system resources rather than manage the resources to recycle them properly.

Maybe I'm just an old guy venting, but I don't have a great deal of respect for MS's software QA group.
JC

JCarter wrote:Here's my take on it. It would appear that as usual, MS released a "not ready for prime time" OS.

Based on first hand knowledge or wild speculation? I swear I remember you mentioning in a previous email that you were presently using Win98...

JCarter wrote:Clearly evidenced by the immediate release of SP1 to fix the first flurry of critical errors.

Most new products need to work out bugs when they are initially released. Beta testing only goes so far.

JCarter wrote:My second concern with Vista is lack of downward compatability. Doesn't support many printers, and (I'm told) many commonly used programs will not run. It rneeds so many system resources that it requires the purchase of a new machine. And all this for what real benefit. The vast majority of PC users only want a stable machine for Word processing, spreadsheets, powerpoint, tax programs and basic photo management. If you're a power user - fine - buy the biggest, baddest monster on the block and be able to handle the overhead of a mega operating system. I don't need it but am forced to go that route as MS and other SW companies stop supporting my reasonably stable W98SE.

Most product manufacturers have updated drivers to make their products work with Vista (which is usually the only thing preventing functionality) or they can be found online elsewhere. It's also pretty hard to blame Windows for another company (like whoever makes a non-compatible printer) not keeping up on creating drivers for newer OS's.

Also, I used WSE98 for a loooooooong time, and the last word I would ever associate with that is "stable". That OS crashed more than a narcoleptic on sleeping pills.

JCarter wrote:XP had a checkered past too - 2 Service Packs to stabilize and make basically safe.

The best MS operating system I've used was Windows 2000 - the choice of industry because of stability and networking benefits. Had rare problems using that.

I'm a big fan of both XP and 2000 (we have 2000 at work... I definitely dig it).

Geez... in reading this, it seems like I should go take a job with MS's sales department!

The one thing I do remember is Windows ME... holy crap was that a vile thing... Win 95 wasn't too far behind it. But Vista works really good... I've been using it for a while now and have had no software or hardware conflicts... it's actually been a painless transition. I use the laptop that has it for all sorts of stuff (video recording, audio, photoshop, etc.)... I'm not sure if that makes me a "power-user" or anything, but it does everything I need it to and more.

I'm almost certain that if you end up getting a computer that has it on it, you'll like it. Honestly, when I first got this laptop I asked the guy at best buy if I could remove Vista and if everything would still work. He asked me why and the only response I had was "I heard it sucked". I really wanted to hate it just because everyone else said it was so damned awful, but I couldn't after I used it for a couple days.

Also, you can't hate Bill Gates anymore, he left Microsoft a few days ago.


PS... I can't believe I'm still awake at 2:30am.

PPS... I can't believe that the hottest topic on a guitar forum is operating systems.

PPPS... Considering you have a legitimate background in programming, I would be curious to hear your input on linux... based on what you wrote and what people have told me about Linux, it's pretty much what you're looking for... a simple, stable, safe OS with very little overhead, right? I know nothing about it other than what I've heard, but I've toyed with the idea of throwing it on one of my boxes just to see what it is like.

I can't believe you guys were still on operating systems at 2:30 a.m. Well, here it is 5:30 a.m. & I'm just waking up, checking in... in discussing VISTA, XP, et. al. with Randy (my husband) who was a programmer for 40 years - he recalls that XP was problematic and patched up a lot in the beginning. He has VISTA on his work laptop now - says he hates it but when I asked him why he said it was "too graphics oriented" & I recall him saying that when Windows added pull-down menus. So we'll probably all get used to VISTA in the long run...

Now off to an early yoga class so I can cope with a busy day of unloading a locker full of 20+ years of collected, accumulated clutter that I hope to sell at a series of tag sales here & make a mint <vbl>... I want to raise enough dough for one of Bernie's classical guitars!

Deb

He's got a point... vista is very graphics oriented.

To your other question... which Lehmann guitar would you get?

I sent this in email last night but thought it good enough to include in this forum.

I think this says enough - I went to Yahoo and typed in "what's wrong with Vista" and here is the top line of the result:

"1 - 10 of 20,600,000 for what' s wrong with vista?"

Need I say more????? JC

JCarter wrote:I sent this in email last night but thought it good enough to include in this forum.

I think this says enough - I went to Yahoo and typed in "what's wrong with Vista" and here is the top line of the result:

"1 - 10 of 20,600,000 for what' s wrong with vista?"

Need I say more????? JC

Yes.

What examples are problems that you have personally had with Vista (not second hand info)?

Hi Dan - Sorry it took me so long to get back to you - on the Lehmann guitar I'm thinking probably his standard classical model, the one with the black & white back... but I'm just beginning to think it over. There are so many possible options available - from Bernie not to mention others. But I like the idea of buying locally and his stuff is really good.

Deb